Aug 26, 2010

Gay Marriage? Yield * No * Quarter

Don't Support Gay Marriage? Fine...

... Bookworm's asking this:

My question for those opposed to gay conservatives who support conservatism on the most important political issue of the day is this: Can you afford to get into a divisive fight over what is, temporarily at least, a less significant issue than saving our entire country from frighteningly potential internal economic collapse and external terrorist and military attack? --Bookworm Room サ The blessings of gay conservatives
This is from the sidebar at the creative controversial conservative blog American Digest, by Gerard Vanderleun.

I have argued here and elsewhere that there are two fascist ideologies threatening western civilization and the American society which has been at its apex for at least a century: Leftism and Islamism. Sometimes I feel I'm part of a very small army trying to hold it all together with sealing wax and sticky tape. We're battling these two enemies who currently hold much of the "high" ground and who are armed with the power of the state, the media, the judiciary and box-cutters. And about half of my side is blinded in the battle by a handful of self-interest tossed in their faces. Right now, my side is losing badly. In war, there can always be an abrupt change of fortune (November 2?), but I'm very pessimistic over the long-haul. (Thomas Sowell talks about Dismantling America here)

I'm finished being bullied on “gay marriage.” I will not concede that we who fight to preserve traditional marriage are gay-haters and I won't cede “marriage” to the Left for it to manipulate out of all meaning and existence. If gay conservatives are threatening to quit the battle, to switch sides over this – then sayonara, Baby. Join the Left. See how that works out for us.

It would be easier on me, but I don't give-in to my children when they're being their narcissistic ungrateful little selves either, because I know it won't make them better people or better members of society. This battle IS NOT ABOUT gays! This is about the fascist Left and mind-control! If we conservatives don't get that the LIE that “gender distinctions are an artifact” and the LIE that “men and women play the same role in marriage” and the LIE that “Johnny is just as fortunate, all else being equal, to have two daddies or two mommies as he would be to have a daddy and a mommy” are the roots of our civilizational destruction - then the fight really is OVER! The greatest evil always begins with such LIES... or to quote Leviathan, "You will not die!" If gay conservatives don't understand that, they might as well vacate the battlefield.

And there's another whole ocean of hurt swirling up into this storm. This “gay marriage” movement is anti-religious and specifically anti-traditional orthodox religions – you know - the kinds conservatives tend to practice. The Bible, particularly the Five Books of Moses, has a sweeping theme of anti-paganism. God commands his people not to sacrifice their children to Moloch (abortion, anyone?), not to tattoo themselves, not to eat, dress or worship like the pagans and yes, not to practice homosexuality as it was practiced in an ancient world filled with pederasty and perversion. Well. There really is nothing new under the sun.

The Bible is also full of smiting by God of both the pagans and his own people who disobey. Huh, wonder what happens when a preacher, priest or rabbi even reads this history to his congregation, let alone refuses to marry a gay couple? Hate crime, anyone? Hello, McFly?! Are we prepared to see our religious leaders go to PRISON? Think it can't happen here? It is already happening in other western societies.

And yes, I'm so pissed off, I'm going to go there. This is another, less obvious form of the fascist Left's antisemitism. I'm not Jewish, but I have a deep regard for the ethical system of Judaism which lies at the foundation of Christianity and western civilization. And male/female marriage is arguably “the” social institution which makes western civilization possible. Any compelling state interest there???

What don't gay marriage advocates get about having standards and ideals, which maybe even 99.9% of the population are incapable of achieving? Would they not even wish to teach their own children to desire the complementarity of male/female unions? Will any of us be free to teach our children the male/female ideal?? If you aren't cut out for male/female marriage, then fine. Don't have one. I bear my own cross and won't think any less of you.

To gay conservatives who want to marry – GET OVER YOURSELVES! It isn't about you. Yes, it is “discriminatory” just the way we discriminate against a brother and sister who are "in love" and wish to marry or how we discriminate against Mormons and (gasp!) the Left's favored allies, Muslims, who wish to practice polygamy. Yes, it is somewhat tragic and unfair that you DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT to everything heterosexuals have. Wahahha! Quit your whining! Unlike elsewhere in the world, you live in a society so tolerant, so liberal, so generous, you not only don't have to worry about being executed or generally shunned by your fellow citizens, you can have almost all the legal protections of straight couples under civil unions. And I'll even fight with you to make sure you have them all. But you * can't * have * marriage *. As I tell my kids... take your Vitamin “N” (No!).

You can choose to be miserable under such a system or you can choose to be GRATEFUL and go on with your happy lives largely left alone by a vast majority of people who don't GIVE A RAT what you do in your bedroom.

Conservatives of every stripe should be about free conscience. Even if gays “win” by destroying the definition of marriage, a large majority of people will never be convinced that the relationship they have with each other is “marriage.” You can't control people's beliefs or thoughts, no matter how Orwellian the system. You can only destroy those whom you oppose. Welcome to 1984... or maybe even more apropos - welcome to Babylon.


Anonymous said...

Love being "married" and your post. If this legal battle is lost, would anyone mind if I entered a polygamist relationship with my dog Honey. 8<) She loves me and I love her so shouldn't we be able to marry? If this union be allowed, I have no desire to consummate our bond.


The Western Chauvinist said...


Color me relieved. Your loving wife,


Cathy said...

Oh I love it! Vitamin N.

Really, WC - I don't think there's any refuting the common sense (the sense that college indoctrination knocks out of you) of your argument.

And let's make sure that we administer a big dose of Vitamin N to congress on NOvemeber 2.

Scuba Nurse said...

Firstly Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong.
Gee wizz that sure sounds a little like your ramble.
Viewing the nation as an integrated collective community, they see pluralism as a dysfunctional aspect of society, and justify a totalitarian state as a means to represent the nation in its entirety.
Again, a lot like your following ramble.
Most fascist dictators have tended to be a tad to the right so left wing fascist sounds damn funny to me. “Right everyone, live your own lives and lead them well, take care of each other. Eat your mungbeans and don’t smack your kids– or else.” Very bloody scary I’m sure.
As for Islam... Islam was founded by Muhammad in the 7th century CE upon the teachings in the Quran, which draws on Judaism, Christianity and native Arab traditions
Christianity begun in the 1st century as a sect within Judaism
So they both draw from the exact same origins, and all three claim to be monotheistic, although Christianity is a tad dodgy on that one.
Battle all you like, but the big three only take up half the world’s belief even with your powers COMBINED so perhaps you would be better off cooperating since they are your nearest theological neighbours.
I fail to understand why the anti on gay marriage if you claim not to be anti-gay.
There are plenty of straight couples who cannot have children (esp. as we marry later in life, or as second marriages, or as people who choose not to reproduce.)
As for your bizarre ramblings about fascist left mind control... for someone who defines himself as Christian (i.e. with an imaginary friend relying entirely on faith with no proof) that’s bloody ripe!
Although the research on these families has limitations, the findings are consistent: children raised by same-sex parents are no more likely to exhibit poor outcomes than children raised by divorced heterosexual parents.
So what exactly is your concern if it isn’t about sticking it in the wrong hole??

As for gender roles, good grief man, move out of the 1940s.

I a few charming notes on Leviticus, and if you are going to quote him then I hope you have no contact with your wife while she is on her period Lev.15: 19-24, that you burn a bull on an alter to please the lord Lev.1:9. That you don’t eat shellfish Lev. 11:10, and you don’t trim the hair around your temples Lev. 19:27.

The bible is an ancient document and a lot of our culture has advanced beyond a flat earth and having to speak to god through a higher person.
I haven’t the time or the energy to argue your endless dead ends and ignorance, but you do smell a tad of someone who has withheld so much on his own needs and wants that he feels the rest of the world aught to be chronically repressed also.

Grow up, or go and join the Taleban where gays, adulterers and those who think outside the extreme right get stoned to death.
You have more in common than you think.

The Western Chauvinist said...

Dear ScubaNurse,

I read your profile. If you had read mine, you would know that I am a woman, not a man. You are young and you know a lot which simply isn't so. Perhaps the most alarming aspect of your Leftist indoctrination is that you no longer believe in the superiority of the western civilization in which you live (New Zealand) based on the Judeo-Christian values which formed it. See - I KNOW there are good people on both sides of the argument. I just want us all to agree to preserve what western civilization has gotten "right" (pun intended). That's why I'm the Western Chauvinist.

I know - you think you're a "new woman." Enlightened, sophisticated and modern in every sense. I think you bothered to respond to me (you'll notice I have comment moderation turned on, which is why your comment didn't appear immediately and why it was unnecessary for you to send it five times ;-) because something I said touched a nerve. I encourage you to further explore whatever topic it was, specifically, which set your nerves to jangling. You may be surprised at what you learn - for instance, twenty years ago, I thought exactly as you do.

The Western Chauvinist said...

But, in the interest of clarity, let's unwind a few things. Fascism is a phenomenon exclusively on the left. Don't go away over that declaration now! Just hear me out. Let's just say there's an ideological spectrum starting on the Left with totalitarianism (authoritarianism) and traversing through "moderation" to the Right with anarchy (unfettered individual freedom). In the US, conservatives are decidedly on the right because we believe in individual liberty under the rule of law (which is factually and historically based on Judeo-Christian values). We fall far short of being anarchists though, because of this adherence to the rule of law. The one area where conservatives wish to impose our morals on the individual is abortion, because we believe it is murder, which is prohibited under every legal code in western societies. That's it. We won't make you eat your mung beans and we won't jail you for spanking your kids. We'd just strongly prefer you not kill them in utero.

National *Socialism* (Nazis) might be considered Leftists to the right end of the Left spectrum, but for many years they have been misidentified with the Right. Communists are indisputably on the Left. Did you know FDR (a liberal Democrat) and arguably America's first fascist president was a big fan of Mussolini? We have a smiley-faced fascism here in America among the "social" Democrats who will make us buy health insurance compliant with standards they've written; who have told us we're not allowed to smoke, eat trans-fats, eat salty foods or use incandescent light-bulbs; who tax the water we use and the water we don't (no kidding - it's called a run-off fee); who believe the purpose of government is to raise revenue to spend on political constituencies which will then re-elect them. See - the gay marriage thing isn't about "tolerance." Gays are beautifully tolerated in America, unlike the countries where Islam predominates. Gay marriage is a demand for "approval." Tolerance is a behavior; approval is a thought. Thus, my argument that the Left is fascist and wants to control our minds - not just our behaviors.

I'll have to catch up with your other criticisms later.


Scuba Nurse said...

thanks for your response, sorry I sent it 5 times. my comp kept locking me out and I thought it hadnt sent.
Your opinions are interesting, thanks for explaining them.

The Western Chauvinist said...

Dear ScubaNurse,

Thank YOU for your civil response to my response. You have MADE MY DAY! Seriously. I know you are an atheist, but I hope you will tolerate me saying, Hallelujah! There is hope - at least for civil dialog. "Clarity over agreement" as my favorite talk show host says.

Lot's of what you said in your criticism is worth responding to, so I hope you'll check back for more of my thoughts.


The Western Chauvinist said...

Back again, ScubaNurse? Good.

I suspected on first reading your comment you were from one of the Commonwealth nations because of your use of the invective, “bloody.”

Do you know the origin of the curse? From what I've explored, it isn't entirely clear, but I suspect it has something to do with the Judeo-Christian values of western civilization. It is fascinating that you took up the Jewish proscriptions against sex during menstruation and the eating of shellfish and the sacrificing of bulls. Leviticus isn't a “he” btw, it is the third book of the Pentatuch (Five Books of Moses) and is named after the tribe of Levi, which was designated as the priestly tribe during the Hebrew's desert wanderings. It is also called “the Priest's Manual” and is intended to teach the priest his role in making distinctions between what is holy and what is unholy (clean/unclean or godly/pagan). This was essential for Israel to maintain the presence of God in the sanctuary (which Israel lost through cycles of sin also spelled out in the Old Testament) and for the nation to maintain its “choseness” during the conquest of Canaan.

The Jewish dietary laws were NEVER intended to be imposed on non-Jews. Judaism is a system of “ethical” monotheism (very law-based and all about how to treat others in nearly every circumstance and how to perform rituals pleasing to God) whereas Christianity, which wholly subsumed the Jewish scriptures believes Christ fulfilled the law and has a more universalist ethic (Jesus came to save everyone and the world would be better if everyone followed Him). Human dignity as people made in God's image and likeness is essential to both. Jews believe human dignity is honored by following the Law. Christians believe human dignity is honored by following Jesus Christ. I happen to believe both adherence to ethical laws and living with Christ as the ideal you emulate serves your own human dignity and that of those around you.

Are you ready for something mind-blowing? Kashrut, or Kosher laws, is probably the first argument in human history for vegetarianism, a favorite practice on the Left. All the proscriptions against eating shellfish and pork and birds of prey are because these animals are considered unclean because they are either scavengers or predators (ancient people had no concept of disease vectors, so this explanation for dietary laws is bogus). Cows and sheep are vegetarians (clean) and therefore allowed. The proscribed animals consume “death.” Judaism is entirely life-focused, which also explains Christianity's promotion of life. Therefore, in western societies, to call something “bloody” was to “smear” it with death – something really bad.

I hope that helps explain the proscription of sex during menstruation, too. There is no potentiality for life – only the signs of death at that time during a woman's cycle.

And here, I think you will agree, is another huge distinction between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Not only does Islam not ascribe to the Jewish holy texts as do Christians, but normative Muslim practice seems to have little regard for the dignity of the human person. A woman shrouded head to foot in a burqa is hardly recognizable as a person, let alone a unique individual precious to God and worthy of ethical treatment by all. And the burqa is a minor insult to the dignity of the individual, compared with what happens to gays (executed), thieves (mutilated) and rape victims (stoned to death for the “honor” of her family).

The next time you're wondering if the Big Three aren't all just the same, it is worth asking an adherent, rather than unquestioningly accepting the Left's narrative.

The Western Chauvinist said...

The seriousness of blood sacrifice is a whole other interesting topic. When Jewish families entered an important contract, or covenant, the patriarchal representative from each family would traverse a pathway with one half of the carcass of sacrificial animals (animals split down the middle) on each side. This was intended to signify the life or death importance of the promises made and that if either party broke the covenant, that party would be as the sacrificial animals – bloody and dead.

This practice is powerfully illustrated in the narrative about the covenant God made with Abraham found in Genesis 15. God is represented as a smoking brazier which Abraham carries as he passes “between those pieces.” The promise God was making was that Abraham would have descendants as numerous as the stars who would be given (by God) the Holy Land (Israel). Christians take the “eschatological” view of this scripture, that it foretells the coming of Christ – the ultimate sacrificial Lamb (God himself) – who promises to bring the Kingdom of God and fulfills the original covenant with Abraham by becoming the sacrifice Himself, because humans were unable to keep their part of the bargain (follow God's laws).

This is why Christians tend to be such a hopeful, happy crowd. We believe God graced us with the opportunity for salvation because He knows we are incapable, given our fallen nature, to earn it on our own. So when you say, “I fail to understand why the anti on gay marriage if you claim not to be anti-gay,” I understand why.

Christians are portrayed by the Left as being judgmental and intolerant (despite living, in the US anyway, in a Christian culture which has proven to be the most tolerant in the world), when the truth is, we believe we're all struggling against the dark aspects of our human nature and I am truly grateful that homosexuality isn't one of mine. But, it doesn't mean I don't have dark aspects and that the homosexual doesn't have just as good a chance at salvation as I do. In fact, I believe those who successfully battle the really tough challenges are especially blessed. Jesus tells us it is easier for a rich man (a man who doesn't have much struggle in life) to get his camel through the eye of a needle (a narrow gate into Jerusalem) than get himself into heaven.

Maybe you've heard the phrase, “love the sinner, hate the sin.” The Church teaches that acts of homosexuality are sinful because they degrade human dignity. I believe this is true. But, I also believe the homosexual is made in God's image and likeness and is due to be treated with all the dignity of anyone else as such. The Faith is full of such seeming paradoxes which happen to vibrate with Truth and real-life experience.

The Bible is an ancient text, but if you got yourself into a good Bible-study, you would be astonished at how it describes/speaks-to our times.

The Western Chauvinist said...

Hey ScubaNurse - are you ok? I read you had a big quake near Christchurch and am hoping all is well for you and your Kiwi friends.